Amtrak

[revno]

3 Fatality trainwreck 100 miles NE of KC at a crossing with no flashing lights, crossbar. Another earlier incident at a similar type crossing occurred in Stockton, CA. Meanwhile, commercial lines hauling China's crap, tar sands and coal into our lives run pretty much run 1000 times the trains with minimal derailments. Why are 80 mph Amtrak trains carrying 200 + passengers crossing unimproved intersections? If we can't answer that question, we should shut down Amtrak.

 

[HomeyR]

3 Fatality trainwreck 100 miles NE of KC at a crossing with no flashing lights, crossbar. Same thing a couple of weeks ago in Stockton, CA. Meanwhile, commercial lines hauling China's crap, tar sands and coal into our lives run pretty much run 100 times the trains with minimal derailments. Why are 80 mph Amtrak trains carrying 200 + passengers crossing unimproved intersections? If we can't answer that question, we should shut down Amtrak.

I just love Governor Numbnuts "oh well" response...

 

[3Rfan]

3 Fatality trainwreck 100 miles NE of KC at a crossing with no flashing lights, crossbar. Same thing a couple of weeks ago in Stockton, CA. Meanwhile, commercial lines hauling China's crap, tar sands and coal into our lives run pretty much run 100 times the trains with minimal derailments. Why are 80 mph Amtrak trains carrying 200 + passengers crossing unimproved intersections? If we can't answer that question, we should shut down Amtrak.

Dude a dump truck pulled in front of the train in a very rural area that no lights or crossing arms. It did NOT derail because of a track issue or engineer mistake! The driver of the truck was COMPLETLEY at fault here. and it cost him his life along with several others on the train.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

That is awful.

 

[revno]

Dude

Railroads make a lot of money. The intersections our families cross every day should have improved crossings.

 

[3Rfan]

Railroads make a lot of money. The intersections our families cross every day should have improved crossings.

It is a gravel road and a vehicle NEVER has the right of way over a train. The trains cannot stop, the truck can and should have. I don't know what the speed on that track is for Amtrak but you can bet it is at least 60mph and probably more on a straight stretch of what appears to be a double main line. You can bet that driver has gone over that crossing a lot, this time he did not pay attention and it cost lives.

 

[revno]

Would the driver have stopped at an improved intersection with lights and crossing arms?

 

[Uncle_Fester]

It is a gravel road and a vehicle NEVER has the right of way over a train. The trains cannot stop, the truck can and should have. I don't know what the speed on that track is for Amtrak but you can bet it is at least 60mph and probably more on a straight stretch of what appears to be a double main line. You can bet that driver has gone over that crossing a lot, this time he did not pay attention and it cost lives.

Thirty years ago the Army sent me to Germany. Even back then there were no intersections in that country where a train and a car could collide. One or the other has been raised or lowered to prevent just such an incident.

 

[revno]

I've read some more about this. I've been using the term intersection for a railroad crossing and that was confusing. Sorry. Passive crossings are the ones with no lights or crossing arms. They represent around half of the crossings in the US. To equip one with the extra safety features costs 400k.

 

[3Rfan]

Would the driver have stopped at an improved intersection with lights and crossing arms?

I've seen it when they don't. they ain't gonna put them on very podunk road in the country. You have no idea what that costs and how much maintenance goes with it. If folks don't want to get killed at RR crossings they might want to actually look before they cross.

 

[MGHS]

I agree 3RN....it's usually operator error when accidents happen at a RR crossing. But that is usually the case for most things and we tend to want to blame a company, govt, business etc. for not protecting ourselves from ourselves.

 

[3Rfan]

I agree 3RN....it's usually operator error when accidents happen at a RR crossing. But that is usually the case for most things and we tend to want to blame a company, govt, business etc. for not protecting ourselves from ourselves.

They'll finally get the state and federal money the county has been asking for to get some kind of upgrade at that crossing now and the RR will do the labor. I'm amazed the engineer and anybody else in the cabin of the engine weren't killed. That's quite and impact when it's a loaded dump truck and all they can do is pull the emergency brakes, keep the whistle blowing and set there and watch and know what's coming and nothing they can do about it. I just read they can go up to 90mph on that piece of track.

 

[revno]

The train was going 89 mph. But, yeah..

Let's protect boy scout troops and such by improving Amtrak routes or shut the stupid thing down.

3R, you're saying the county had been asking for crossing upgrades?

 

[3Rfan]

The article I read said they had. Nothing new about everybody is always wanting something done if they don't have to pay for it. BNSF owns the track and there was NOTHING wrong with it, it was a pretty high speed piece of track. The dump truck driver is the one that screwed up, I don't know what you don't understand about that. Even if you can't see as well as you think you should I'll guarantee you there was a train whistle screaming well before they got to that crossing and the Amtrak whistles are louder than most right trains.

 

[revno]

"it was a pretty high speed piece of track."

That had a dump truck pull across a passive crossing. Truck was hauling to or from a corps of engineer's site. Seems legit..

 

[3Rfan]

"it was a pretty high speed piece of track."

That had a dump truck pull across a passive crossing. Truck was hauling to or from a corps of engineer's site. Seems legit..

Seems legit? I don't know what that means but he did NOT have the right of way period, and the train has a very loud whistle.

 

[revno]

I've never said he had the right of way, and I don't know why you keep bringing it up?

My original point was why is an 80mph 200+ passenger train traveling through a crossing like this. Does that seem like a legit question?

 

[3Rfan]

I've never said he had the right of way, and I don't know why you keep bringing it up?

My original point was why is an 80mph 200+ passenger train traveling through a crossing like this. Does that seem like a legit question?

Nope they're all over the country. All kinds of gravel roads, back roads and any kind of road you can think of cross RR tracks in probably every state. The train is traveling on the track that takes it where it needs to go, they don't just run in big cites or across big highways. People need to understand how long it takes them to stop and heed the whistle even when there is no lights or crossing gates. I'd bet they are many folks that ride Amtrak to see such country as this one runs through.

 

[revno]

So... why can't the Railroads and Amtrak improve all of their crossings? You know, build a safe passenger rail system that the fuel used per miles traveled is miniscule to flying or driving. Probably makes too much sense.

China and Japan have built these huge systems, Europe as well.

 

[3Rfan]

So... why can't the Railroads and Amtrak improve all of their crossings? You know, build a safe passenger rail system that the fuel used per miles traveled is miniscule to flying or driving. Probably makes too much sense.

China and Japan have built these huge systems, Europe as well.

$$$$
If people would just do what they're supposed to do at a RR crossing they would not get hit or cause a disaster like the one we're talking about.

 

[revno]

That is a Non answer.

There is a reason why interstate highways are limited access. Same principle should apply to passenger trains.

 

[3Rfan]

That is a Non answer.

There is a reason why interstate highways are limited access. Same principle should apply to passenger trains.

That is ridiculous and a very strange comparison! Amtrak uses a lot of RR tracks owned by freight RR companies or they couldn't get anywhere. Their are thousands of crossings that are NOT high traffic and don't have all the lights, bells and gates. Why can't you understand this is NOT a train issue, people not doing what they should do at such a crossing like the one where this happened is the issue. STOP, LOOK and LISTEN!!! How long do you think the dump truck driver would have been held up by passenger train going 90mph?

 

[3Rfan]

That is ridiculous and a very strange comparison! Amtrak uses a lot of RR tracks owned by freight RR companies or they couldn't get anywhere. Their are thousands of crossings that are NOT high traffic and don't have all the lights, bells and gates. Why can't you understand this is NOT a train issue, people not doing what they should do at such a crossing like the one where this happened is the issue. STOP, LOOK and LISTEN!!! How long do you think the dump truck driver would have been held up by passenger train going 90mph?

Just saw that Amtrak is being sued over that wreck. The guy, I guess a lawyer, said Amtrak has a reponsibility to maintain safe crossings. They don't even own the track they were running on, it belongs to BNSF. I assume like you he doesn't have any idea how many crossings are like that in this country. I assume he too thinks every pig path that crosses a RR has to have lights and crossing gates.

 

[MGHS]

What I find funny is that 3Rfan you have taken a Conservative position on this point because you have knowledge of how the system works in regards to the Railroad.....And I agree with you 100% on your analysis. Now maybe you can apply that to other companies and corporations as well.

I mean they made 6 billion in profit .... if you apply your logic of Big Oil should be taking a bath on profits to keep Gas prices low for the greater good of the people...then surely 6 billion would build a lot of RR crossing signals to SAVE LIVES.....I am playing Devils Advocate as I don't believe BNSF has any obligation to do so at every train track crossing. But I hope you do see the hypocrisy

 

[3Rfan]

Big oil ain't taking a bath on anything. They choose NOT to pump more from the wells they have in operation already while crying Biden is killing oil production by stopping the construction of a pipeline that has not been completed so has never provided us with ANY oil and when it does it will be oil from Canada, not oil from in this country. They could up production to where it was several months ago and lower gas prices immediately and they would still be making lots of money because people would buy more. They get their leases from the ground we all own.

 

[freezeoption]

Not that I'm a political crap board person but that oil pipeline was going to haul crap oil to Mexico, we don't use that grade. I grew up in a railroad town and taught in a railroad town. It's driver error no matter what. I've seen cars pass right up to the last second. There's only a one time mistake with a train. Trains travel all over US. People need to be aware of what's going on. The tracks are there slow down and look both ways. The driver was from Brookfield and may not have known the area but should have saw the tracks and heard the train.

 

[MGHS]

Big oil ain't taking a bath on anything. They choose NOT to pump more from the wells they have in operation already while crying Biden is killing oil production by stopping the construction of a pipeline that has not been completed so has never provided us with ANY oil and when it does it will be oil from Canada, not oil from in this country. They could up production to where it was several months ago and lower gas prices immediately and they would still be making lots of money because people would buy more. They get their leases from the ground we all own.

It's been pointed out to you numerous times that their are a lot of moving parts on ramping up oil production at the Well Head. That it's not just push button and more oil is in the pipeline situation. And it's also been pointed out that investors have demanded that the Profit margin be a priority and that they will not take a loss which over the last 10 yrs in at least 3 of those years iif not more over all the oil industry did take a bath profit wise.

Clearly as a for profit business and with stock holders and investors to satisfy the oil industry is not going to take massive risks in a time where profits could be coming to a end do to the policy of Biden and his administration.

People are paid for those leases if it's on private property and off of public lands the feds get 12.5 percent in royalties. Maybe Biden could forgo the Royalty fee's on federal land to make big oil more profitable???

And gas consumption is only down 3/5 % from last year so really lowering gas and upping production is probably not the best course of action profit wise. Clearly you still think that Business have some moral obligation to provide cheaper prices to the consumer at the expense of profit for their shareholders. Which is not the case at all the moral obligation and legal obligation is to make as much profit as possible to enrich those who take the risk of investing.

 

[3Rfan]

It's been pointed out to you numerous times that their are a lot of moving parts on ramping up oil production at the Well Head. That it's not just push button and more oil is in the pipeline situation. And it's also been pointed out that investors have demanded that the Profit margin be a priority and that they will not take a loss which over the last 10 yrs in at least 3 of those years iif not more over all the oil industry did take a bath profit wise.

Clearly as a for profit business and with stock holders and investors to satisfy the oil industry is not going to take massive risks in a time where profits could be coming to a end do to the policy of Biden and his administration.

People are paid for those leases if it's on private property and off of public lands the feds get 12.5 percent in royalties. Maybe Biden could forgo the Royalty fee's on federal land to make big oil more profitable???

And gas consumption is only down 3/5 % from last year so really lowering gas and upping production is probably not the best course of action profit wise. Clearly you still think that Business have some moral obligation to provide cheaper prices to the consumer at the expense of profit for their shareholders. Which is not the case at all the moral obligation and legal obligation is to make as much profit as possible to enrich those who take the risk of investing.

If every business went by your theory we wouldn't be able to afford anything at walmart, kroger on any damn business that is big enough to have shareholders. You're a sick dude if you really believe all that BS you put out! I'd bet the oil industry only losse money by their books, not real losses. The wells I'm talking are not shut down, they just cut production. Don't tell me if they turned it back up they couldn't get it to the refineries. If refineries aren't producing enough gas that's also on them! The is NO oil or gas shortage.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

On top of that they have many leases that they don’t even use. The sheer lunacy is depressing.

 

[3Rfan]

I think that number is 9000. I agree those would take a long time to produce but the wells they just cut production on several months ago could ramp up very quickly and lower gas prices. They claim refining capacity is low but they also did that!
Duck we just don't understand, they should go for the very most profit they can get, for the 'share holders' of course.

 

[revno]

Wonder what would happen to demand for oil if everyone traveled by rail rather than airlines?

 

[3Rfan]

Wonder what would happen to demand for oil if everyone traveled by rail rather than airlines?

Not sure how that would shake out, trains use a lot of fuel and if a lot more folks took a train that would go up. All that said trains in their current from couldn't possibly keep with a huge increase in demand. IF we would allow the high speed RR's to be built in a more places it would help. Even then most folks would want to get somewhere faster. If the airlines can't their crap together people will start finding some kind of alternative. They got a 54 BILLION dollar bailout to keep their people employed during the pandemic but now they don't have enough folks to put planes in the air.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Wonder what would happen to demand for oil if everyone traveled by rail rather than airlines?

Trump would beg Saudis to cut oil production again?

 

[revno]

Ya, airlines suck up bailouts. Probably the least efficient mode of travel. Gallons of fuel vs. lbs. shipped, guess where railroads finish vs trucks or airlines?

You can travel across Spain at 200mph for 40$.

 

[3Rfan]

Ya, airlines suck up bailouts. Probably the least efficient mode of travel. Gallons of fuel vs. lbs. shipped, guess where railroads finish vs trucks or airlines?

You can travel across Spain at 200mph for 40$.

But not in the most advanced country in the world. 😘

 

[revno]

Spain seems pretty advanced in this example..

 

[MGHS]

If every business went by your theory we wouldn't be able to afford anything at walmart, kroger on any damn business that is big enough to have shareholders. You're a sick dude if you really believe all that BS you put out! I'd bet the oil industry only losse money by their books, not real losses. The wells I'm talking are not shut down, they just cut production. Don't tell me if they turned it back up they couldn't get it to the refineries. If refineries aren't producing enough gas that's also on them! The is NO oil or gas shortage.

You really believe that Wal-Mart/Target/ ETC. don't charge as much as the market will bear?

And no you live in some fantasy if you don't think Companies actually lose money and it's all some shell game and paper shuffling.

It's obvious that you are just basing your idea's on the emotion that Companies should lose profits to benefit the customer. That is not the case at all. Their Business is making money. Not making sure you and I and everyone has affordable goods to maintain on lifestyle.

Good gosh you benefited your whole live from the Corrupt and wasteful RR....with it's Union and grunt employee's who are overpaid and over benefited and that no doubt Drives up the Cost of everything including the shipping of oil.

Employee wages are usually 70% of a business cost and Union Wages are even more.

 

[MGHS]

I think that number is 9000. I agree those would take a long time to produce but the wells they just cut production on several months ago could ramp up very quickly and lower gas prices. They claim refining capacity is low but they also did that!
Duck we just don't understand, they should go for the very most profit they can get, for the 'share holders' of course.

They have reduced capacity because of the closing of refineries that where outdated, damaged by hurricanes or didn't meet the new environmental standards and the cost to update them or build new ones is and was not sound business wise. Nobody is going to replace the 36 refineries that have shut down with a Insane anti-oil Administration in office and mucking up their model.

But of course you want the Oil companies and their investors to take a loss to up production to make sure you have gas at the rate you want cause it benefits you. Well investors and shareholders are not in the business of benefiting you or anyone else they are in the business of benefiting themselves it's not complicated.

 

[MGHS]

Trump would beg Saudis to cut oil production again?

If SA didn't hate Biden and his Administration they would produce more Oil!! Instead they are allied with Russia.....LOL Putin oil reduction has hurt America and the world More than Biden's lame Sanctions have hurt Russia.....

Joe Biden's Oil Gamble Set to Backfire as Saudi Arabia Sticks With Russia

Many countries in the West, including the U.S., want Saudi Arabia to pump out more oil to help mitigate the growing global energy crisis.

www.newsweek.com

Trump didn't ask SA to cut production he told them to....If Trump was in office he would tell SA to raise production and they would.

 

[3Rfan]

I

You really believe that Wal-Mart/Target/ ETC. don't charge as much as the market will bear?

And no you live in some fantasy if you don't think Companies actually lose money and it's all some shell game and paper shuffling.

It's obvious that you are just basing your idea's on the emotion that Companies should lose profits to benefit the customer. That is not the case at all. Their Business is making money. Not making sure you and I and everyone has affordable goods to maintain on lifestyle.

Good gosh you benefited your whole live from the Corrupt and wasteful RR....with it's Union and grunt employee's who are overpaid and over benefited and that no doubt Drives up the Cost of everything including the shipping of oil.

Employee wages are usually 70% of a business cost and Union Wages are even more.

I have NEVER said a company should lose money, they could still make LOTS of money and let the common people have a decent price at the pump.
Over paid and over benefitted grunt union workers?!!! If you think RR union workers are overpaid you should give those jobs a try for a few years, in track maintenance or in train service. You have NO idea how hard those jobs are and how much time those people spend away from home trying make a decent living.
How are RR's corrupt and wasteful? They actually have to pay their own people, train dispatchers ,to direct train traffic unlike the airlines who have the benefit of government paid air traffic controllers.