3R is smiling tonight
- Thread starter Duck_walk
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Sooner or later the Cardinals will get a runner from a strikeout that the catcher can;t handle. 20+ Ks in less than 2 games G0 bullpen. When Maness comes in the game will be over. Ducky I'm afraid I am going to reach my RISP quota by the end of April. RISP RISP RISP
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With 1 or 2 less Ks at the right time the Cards probably win. Just moving a runner would have helped.
When does Mabry's seat warm up? He took over Big Mac's top ranked offense 4 years ago. It's trended way down the last two years. Without a lot of power they simply have to do the little things right. Like move runners over. Get bunts down. Not strike 27 times in the first two games. Mabry may have the right message but sometimes a different voice makes all the difference. I know Mike won't want to fire him but if it continues in the wrong direction sooner or later something will have to change.
When does Mabry's seat warm up? He took over Big Mac's top ranked offense 4 years ago. It's trended way down the last two years. Without a lot of power they simply have to do the little things right. Like move runners over. Get bunts down. Not strike 27 times in the first two games. Mabry may have the right message but sometimes a different voice makes all the difference. I know Mike won't want to fire him but if it continues in the wrong direction sooner or later something will have to change.
Not what I'm saying, but you know that. Just trying to point out what you old coots can't see, that SOMETIMES a K is just another out. Or in this case, better. I know, you'll never agree. And neither will 3R. But just know, these two instances are evidence. Not opinion...Btw, I use coot in an endearing way!
Of all the things that frustrated me last night (Wong messing up the bunt, all the K's, etc). Matheny pinch running for the best hitter in the lineup in extra innings is the most aggravating. Not because he used a pinch runner. But because he did that, AND DIDN'T USE THE RUNNER. What was the point of that? If you're not going to A) bunt him over into scoring position B) try to steal a base to get into scoring position or C) start him in a hit and run and maybe move him first to third on a single. Do something! I get that you don't want to run into an out in extras, but if thats the case, then don't pinch run. That blew my mind. I'm sure there's a logical explanation, but I was pretty heated when I went to bed last night. Lol.
On a side note, I like the Final Boss in the bullpen. He sure looked good last night.
On a side note, I like the Final Boss in the bullpen. He sure looked good last night.
If you want to use results to prove your point, which is what you're doing...you have to see the other side. What do you think happens more often in MLB? A complete DP, or a botched DP (even include ones where there's no error given b/c they get an out)?
Wong not getting the bunt down is brutal. A middle IF'er with an average glove and zero ability to hit a lefty, has to be able to at least get a bunt down. Especially in that situation. Ducky might be correct, he could become whipping boy #1 for me.
I do understand your side. I just don't completely agree with it. If you're going to strikeout as much as this lineup has in the first 2 games then it has to be offset by a lineup full of mashers. Unfortunately, we don't have that. This lineup has to put the ball in play to be successful overall. Yes, there are situations where a K is a better result than a DP, but in the grand scheme the strikeouts need to be in check for an offense without a 3-4-5 like the days of the MV3.
I couldn't agree more. Said this the other day. Was just using the DPs to dig on Ducky and 3R a bit.
All 3R is saying is that your chances of something good happening are better if you put it in play versus K. Of course a K is always a better result than a DP. But you never hope for a K because 99.9% of the time the results are going to be bad. Putting it in play ups those chances considerably. That's just common sense.
But putting it in play with a runner on also increases the odds of a DP happening, which is worse than a K. I have always understood what he's saying when he says that. Have never understood the ignoring of the other side. A K simply isn't always as bad as putting the ball in play. Situations play a part in it all. You can't just simply say, as he has, that a K is always worse than putting a ball in play. It's just not true.
Need a win tonight and all will be right with the world!!!!! Go Birds. This is where I think the Birds have a real advantage over the rest of the teams in the Central. Leake, Jaimi, amd C Marti I'll take over everybody's 3,4, and 5 in the Central. The bullpen was lights out so all is not doom and gloom.Not sure why we are keeping a rule 5 player who they seem to not want to use.
You've seen the Birds offense, right? But I agree, 3/4/5 seem to be pretty darned good.
2013 and 2014 Playoffs not teach you anything???
They were willing to use those boys in tight situations. Bowman was touted as their long man and extra inning pitcher. Maness finally has a good inning and they run him out there until he gets rocked. None of the other guys who had low pitch counts and lights out stuff went more than an inning. Beginning to think NM might be right about MM
I was going to stay out of this but what you say is absolutely ridiculous! It's ALWAYS better in hindsight if you hit into a DP rather strikeout. BUT it's very nearly a 100% chance that nothing good will happen when you strikeout versus putting the ball in play and making the defense do several things right to get an out much less a DP. It is NOT me that is waaay off on this. If you ask anybody that has played baseball at any high level they will tell you a SO is worse than putting the ball in play and I have no doubt about that. If you don't want your hitter to hit into a DP then make them BUNT! Much harder to turn a DP on a bunt than a ground ball and the fielders actually have to do soemthing. Very easy to say a pitcher, or a guy as slow as Molina, should just SO rather the hit the ball AFTER a DP but you CANNOT know that in advance. You're wrong and NO stat can prove otherwise on this matter.
And no one steps in the box hoping to strike out. Sometimes bad results happen. But hindsight is 20/20. Stiking out is never the original goal.I do know this and it is. Nobody has ever gotten a base hit, double, triple, or a homerun by striking out. Only 1 way and that is to hit the ball.
I do know this and it is. Nobody has ever gotten a base hit, double, triple, or a homerun by striking out. Only 1 way and that is to hit the ball.
This debate is getting old. One thing I think we can all agree on is Mo's chickens have come home to roost. You cant lose talented veterans and replace them with cheap unproven young guys and keep this train rolling. You knew it wouldn't last forever. The end is painful.
Hard to convince some, when basing everything off of results, that there's actually two sides to it. Mind numbing.
The funny thing is, not all strike outs are created equal. Bryant had 200 strikeouts last year.....I'd love to go back and look at how many were 3 pitch strike outs vs a full count.
A strike out after a 10 pitch at bat is incredibly more valuable than a 1 pitch double play to end an inning. But 3R enjoys 2 outs more, for whatever reason....even though the strikeout made the pitcher work more.
But 3R is right, as a guy who played at a high level.... I loved to see double plays over strikeouts. Being a pitcher, I'd much rather have 2 outs vs 1 out.
I bet none of your coaches ever emphasized "making contact" since you were a hall of famer and all.
Hard to hit into double plays when your team is striking out 10+ times a game and nobody is getting on base. It's mind numbing for those who are hung up on 1 out being better than 2. Like that happens every time someone strikes out or hits a ground ball or even a fly ball.
That's 3R's stance. His world is black and white. Me and Eagle laugh at that and prove it wrong by being just as black and white about it. We aren't saying strikeouts are good. All outs suck, everyone should hit 1.000.
As for Duck. He's just a sorry excuse for a man that never accomplished anything in life. Now he just complains about everyone on a message board in hopes someone can justify his existence.
And the Birds lead the league in Ks and are 0-3 It's all relative but you shouldn't be so mean to Ducky he is a good guy deep down. I just like a good debate and as a coach of high school baseball for 10 years I hated strikeouts.
I've had a ton of success. Chances are I was a much better baseball player than you. Led my district in hitting. Played Div. I-AA football. Got an MBA. Had a successful business career and then won 80% of my games over a 20 year coaching career before retiring early because I could afford to. I even got to meet VB and work with many other great people along the way. But you can stick with your narrative. One thing I do know is I never had to lie about my exploits on a message board to sound famous. HOF Bahahahahahahaha.
Don't be jealous little man. Veer exposed you last year and we all had a good laugh at your expense. Thanks for the good times. And since you are such a huuuuge Cubs fan, maybe you should actually go to Wrigley soon.
I'm pretty sure everyone that bats with a runner on 1st does NOT hit into a DP, but I am pretty sure that almost everyone that strikes out does make an out! You haven't proven anything with your weird logic on strikeouts or DP's, it's NOT always one or the other.That is most certainly NOT black and white.
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