2016 Birds

[Eagles_Ball]

All the Moss talk, wall banging, and injury updates has got me thinking (not really a good thing)...about what the 2016 lineup looks like...or at least the offensive side of the roster.

• Molina
• Cruz...or whomever for backup catcher
• Adams
• Moss -- arb eligible I believe
• Marp
• Garcia or Koz...I really freaking hope Garcia learns to play SS soon.
• Peralta
• Wong
• Holiday
• Piscotty
• Grichuck
• Jay (that contract kills me)

I think that's all of the arb eligible or under contract guys. Pham? Reynolds? Heyward? I'd be more than cool with Pham, signing Reynolds and letting Heyward walk. Not that he's been bad, but the cash could be spent on pitching in some way. If healthy, this is an interesting construction.

 

[Kenny56]

Holliday?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Holliday?

Retirement? LOL. I knew I was forgetting someone! I had him in my mind as the errday LF'er. Just forgot to put him on the list.

 

[Neutron Monster]

The decision for what to do with Heyward will drive much of the offseason activity. Resigning him would be 15% or more of the payroll. If we don't sign him, there's a decent chance we make some other move or moves.

 

[3Rfan]

All the Moss talk, wall banging, and injury updates has got me thinking (not really a good thing)...about what the 2016 lineup looks like...or at least the offensive side of the roster.

• Molina
• Cruz...or whomever for backup catcher
• Adams
• Moss -- arb eligible I believe
• Marp
• Garcia or Koz...I really freaking hope Garcia learns to play SS soon.
• Peralta
• Wong
• Holiday
• Piscotty
• Grichuck
• Jay (that contract kills me)

I think that's all of the arb eligible or under contract guys. Pham? Reynolds? Heyward? I'd be more than cool with Pham, signing Reynolds and letting Heyward walk. Not that he's been bad, but the cash could be spent on pitching in some way. If healthy, this is an interesting construction.

Where would this pitcher play? We still have an abundance of starting pitchers, Waino should add to that and the pen is full.

 

[Duck_walk]

If we let Heyward walk, we need another significant bat. We have enough outfielders to deal. I have really enjoyed having Piscotty, but I hope we all realize he isn't going to hit .340 like he is now. Holliday will be a year older after missing a huge portion of the season. Pham and Grichuk are injury prone athletes.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Where would this pitcher play? We still have an abundance of starting pitchers, Waino should add to that and the pen is full.

Lackey is a FA and Garcia is made of paiper-mache, we don't have quite the abundance yet. I would be surprised if we didn't either resign Lackey or another FA

 

[Neutron Monster]

If we let Heyward walk, we need another significant bat. We have enough outfielders to deal. I have really enjoyed having Piscotty, but I hope we all realize he isn't going to hit .340 like he is now. Holliday will be a year older after missing a huge portion of the season. Pham and Grichuk are injury prone athletes.

Plus, are the Cards willing to commit to Adams or sign a different 1B? Or will they play Moss there?

 

[oldroundballer]

Plus, are the Cards willing to commit to Adams or sign a different 1B? Or will they play Moss there?

Or will Holliday bring a 1B mitt to spring training next year? I doubt he'd be against it if it helped the team. That said, I'm not sure I want him in on more defensive plays than he is now.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Lackey is a FA and Garcia is made of paiper-mache, we don't have quite the abundance yet. I would be surprised if we didn't either resign Lackey or another FA

This. Basically just saying I'm way cool with the above offensive roster, not signing JHey, and getting a pitcher or two.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Where would this pitcher play? We still have an abundance of starting pitchers, Waino should add to that and the pen is full.

Pen isn't even close to full. Cishek is gone. Broxton is gone. Belisle is gone. Villenuava is gone. Choate is gone. But yeah, other than that, the pen is full. Keep in mind, when I say gone, I mean they aren't arb eligible or under contract beyond 2015.

 

[3Rfan]

Pen isn't even close to full. Cishek is gone. Broxton is gone. Belisle is gone. Villenuava is gone. Choate is gone. But yeah, other than that, the pen is full. Keep in mind, when I say gone, I mean they aren't arb eligible or under contract beyond 2015.

And you think they won't bring any of them back???? I guess I don't have the crystal ball some of you have. Why would any of those guys command a big contract? Villenueva has been pretty dang good but only has about 30 appearances, don't know how that makes you worth lots of money. They have 2 or 3 guys they could bring up that have been up and down this year that could replace anyone they let go.

 

[3Rfan]

Lackey is a FA and Garcia is made of paiper-mache, we don't have quite the abundance yet. I would be surprised if we didn't either resign Lackey or another FA

I was figuring on Lackey to be back unless he wants huge long term deal. The kid at AA will be up early next year, if not out of ST if he keeps doing what he's doing. Garcia is and always will be a question mark but dang he's been good this go round. I guess they could use him as trade bait now after what he's done but I hope he goes to the AL if he's traded cause he'll eat ours guy up if he's in the NL.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Reyes won't be up in April 2016. That's just not how we work.

Realistically it wouldn't shock me if he wasn't up until 2017. He hasn't been in aa that long

 

[Eagles_Ball]

And you think they won't bring any of them back???? I guess I don't have the crystal ball some of you have. Why would any of those guys command a big contract? Villenueva has been pretty dang good but only has about 30 appearances, don't know how that makes you worth lots of money. They have 2 or 3 guys they could bring up that have been up and down this year that could replace anyone they let go.

Oh, I wasn't saying that. Just meant "gone" as in they're not under contract beyond this season. Money is there to make some moves. Fair to assume some of those moves could be re-upping with some of those guys.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I was figuring on Lackey to be back unless he wants huge long term deal. The kid at AA will be up early next year, if not out of ST if he keeps doing what he's doing. Garcia is and always will be a question mark but dang he's been good this go round. I guess they could use him as trade bait now after what he's done but I hope he goes to the AL if he's traded cause he'll eat ours guy up if he's in the NL.

I think Lackey will command, and want, one last biggish type deal. NM needs to help me here...but I'm thinking 3 yrs at 12-15M/yr??? I suck at this kind of stuff though.

 

[3Rfan]

I think Lackey will command, and want, one last biggish type deal. NM needs to help me here...but I'm thinking 3 yrs at 12-15M/yr??? I suck at this kind of stuff though.

If he wants that, and he probably will, they need to let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

 

[Neutron Monster]

I think Lackey will command, and want, one last biggish type deal. NM needs to help me here...but I'm thinking 3 yrs at 12-15M/yr??? I suck at this kind of stuff though.

3 years seems aggressive for a 37 year old, but you never know. He's more likely to get that if there aren't other FA SPs, and I don't know what the market will be.

I'd guess 2 years, $32 million or 3 years, $45 million. Average annual values are going to be higher than people may guess - the revenue growth continues in MLB. Lackey has put up nearly 3 WAR this year after putting up over 2 in each of the last two years. He's thrown over 189 innings in each of the last two years and he's on pace to do so again. He's going to get double digit millions per year.

I doubt the Cards are willing to go 3 years on him given they do have young starters.

Lackey has the potential to be a bad deal for someone who doesn't have their analytics in order - his numbers are inflated a bit by the strong Cards defense. He doesn't project to have an ERA under 3 with an average defensive team behind him.

 

[Neutron Monster]

If he wants that, and he probably will, they need to let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

If you can get him for $12 million a year for 2 years you got a pretty decent deal. 3 years for $15 per and I wouldn't like it.

 

[Neutron Monster]

If he wants that, and he probably will, they need to let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

Wait until you see what Heyward gets. He might get close to $200 M over 8 years or something like that.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Wait until you see what Heyward gets. He might get close to $200 M over 8 years or something like that.

That's the deal I really wouldn't want any part of, given what the Birds already have in OF'ers. Spend it on arms and live with what is there.

 

[Kenny56]

Heyward will get a big deal somewhere. I'm not buying that the Cards can't afford that contract. It's really not that ridiculous considering Holliday's contract and output. Heyward is a supposedly a great teammate, great defensively and has shown a big upside on his swing. He is also very young.

I have no idea who else is coming up in FA from around the league, so I can't really say who they would get or not.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Heyward will get a big deal somewhere. I'm not buying that the Cards can't afford that contract. It's really not that ridiculous considering Holliday's contract and output. Heyward is a supposedly a great teammate, great defensively and has shown a big upside on his swing. He is also very young.

I have no idea who else is coming up in FA from around the league, so I can't really say who they would get or not.

I think they can afford, I'd just personally see the money spent on pitching. Grichuck, Piscotty, Holiday, Pham, Jay, Moss (assuming they offer him arbitration, which they'd be nuts not to)...all are solid OF options. Resign Reynolds and go after some arms. It's not that I don't dig JHey (sorta), but the OF really isn't a source of concern.

 

[Duck_walk]

I think the lesson we re-learned is that players on a salary push like Lackey and J-hey will work hard for you. Picking up guys in the last year of their contract isn't a bad deal.

I wouldn't expect them to perform at that level next season. Especially given Lackeys age and J-heys big jump in success vs lefties.

 

[Neutron Monster]

I think the lesson we re-learned is that players on a salary push like Lackey and J-hey will work hard for you. Picking up guys in the last year of their contract isn't a bad deal.

I wouldn't expect them to perform at that level next season. Especially given Lackeys age and J-heys big jump in success vs lefties.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...effect_do_sports_free_agents_try_harder_.html

There is no real demonstrable evidence that players do better in a contract year. See DeRosa, Mark for a painful recent example with the Birds. Furcal as well - he didn't even see the field his last year. There's plenty of counterexamples to your good examples.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Heyward will get a big deal somewhere. I'm not buying that the Cards can't afford that contract. It's really not that ridiculous considering Holliday's contract and output. Heyward is a supposedly a great teammate, great defensively and has shown a big upside on his swing. He is also very young.

I have no idea who else is coming up in FA from around the league, so I can't really say who they would get or not.

Yeah, if they sign him, logically, it's because he is Holliday's replacement as the cornerstone OF

 

[vbsideout]

They have to get a bopper to hit 4th we can not continue this 2 year trend of not being able to drive in runs. Best case would be sign Heyward and C Davis then you have Piscotti as your super sub. Or if your too tight to sign both then let Heyward go and sign Davis. we have got to fix our 4 and 5 spots in the batting order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Our lead off hitter is going to lead the team In HRs and RBIs and that is not a good thing

 

[3Rfan]

They have to get a bopper to hit 4th we can not continue this 2 year trend of not being able to drive in runs. Best case would be sign Heyward and C Davis then you have Piscotti as your super sub. Or if your too tight to sign both then let Heyward go and sign Davis. we have got to fix our 4 and 5 spots in the batting order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Our lead off hitter is going to lead the team In HRs and RBIs and that is not a good thing

If they make Piscotty a sub I might just stop watching all together. I don't expect him be as good as he has been over the long haul but the kid play on both sides of the ball.